January 2025
Discord Chat with CSA_2D7
This transcript is a partially edited conversation between Jonathan Chomko and CSA2D7 regarding Constant 11 (an Ethereum art object), Direct (a performance modifying Constant 11), and CSA Mover (a smart contract on Ethereum written by 0xfff used to automate part of the performance). An unedited second conversation took place in the CSA2D7 Discord between Jonathan and CSA with the intent to simulate a conversation on a bench in McCarren Park similar to a first conversation that took place in-person between Jonathan and CSA a few weeks before, nearby McCarren Park. This medium was partly influenced by Nina Sobell and Emily Hartzell’s “ParkBench, VirtuAlice: Alice Sat Here.”
CSA2D7 Heya Jonathan. Just chilling here ready for you whenever you are
Jonathan Chomko Hey CSA good afternoon!
As I've been thinking about this chat, I wondered how you got into "Constant?”
CSA2D7 Well, the first time I heard about you was through JPG, which was... how to describe it, a decentralized gathering place where Canonites tried to define the next artistic canons for NFTs through social consensus (i.e., arguing, agreeing, voting); founded by MP (María Paula Fernández), Trent (Trent Elmore), and Nic (Nic Hamilton) amongst others. Misha, xsten, WMP, Simon Denny, Chainleft, Tokenfox are all JPG alumni.
So I kind of followed your work from a distance. It was your work “Natural Static” w/ Brian Droitcour and JPG where you kind of popped up again on my radar
And then when you announced "Constant" on X, I got really interested. It kind of hit on some interesting things that were happening in the scene at the time - esp. the onchain aspect
Now that you've had some time to kind of gain some distance from the release of the project, how do you think about it (now vs. then)?
Jonathan Chomko Nice I love JPG, they are a good crew of people!
When I was working on "Constant" there were a few themes I was focusing on; the idea of representing relationships between people on the blockchain, and the idea of making a work that is not static; that changes each time it's transferred.
Usually when I get close to releasing a project I start thinking a lot about elements that are perhaps not central to my interest in the project - I think about how the market will respond, whether it has enough generative variation, etc.
I'm also realizing the more I release projects, the easier it is to try to put too many ideas into one project, and it's better to keep things simple if possible. Let each project ring like a bell, if it can
But looking back now, I'm happy with the decisions I made, and that the ideas resonated with certain people, yourself included!
CSA2D7 It certainly resonated with me. At our last meeting you talked about its aesthetics and how you didn't think it was necessarily an aesthetically-pleasing piece. Can you talk a little bit about how you thought about the project? You mentioned some of Harm Van Den Dorpel's work as a potential route you didn't take
Jonathan Chomko Yeah, I'm happy it did!
In the post, I wrote that I didn't take the Harm-esque approach because it was too visually dense. I was also interested in pure composition. It's very easy in generative art to have lots of elements, and they signal complexity and value, and I felt like I had done that gesture in Natural Static
What I meant about aesthetics is that this work doesn't primarily make an appeal to value through its aesthetics. I feel like a lot of generative art says 'look at what I can do with code, look at the complexity I can achieve with code'. And "Constant" doesn't do that - the aesthetics are there as one part of a larger gesture.
The aesthetics are kinda there to only illustrate the blockchain dynamics, and to point to a sort of relationality that blockchain enables.
I'd be curious to know more about when you decided to embark on the building up of “Constant 11”.
CSA2D7 Yes! The aesthetics illustrate blockchain dynamics, and that relationality is how I always saw the pieces, as building blocks, and that’s why using “Constant 11,” with each 1 representing the two starting blocks was kind of a sign for me.
This was something I was starting to think about when “Constant 0” started to get passed around amongst artists, including Rhea Myers, who was a significant influence on “Constant.” The figure of “0” also matches the circle we made (starting with the original transfer, Jonathan to CSA, and ending with Jonathan to CSA).
With respect to “11,” I had to wait for the collection size to reach that magic number before I could acquire it.
Blockchain dynamics aside, there is an aesthetic similarity to Vera Molnár's work “100 trapèzes” when “Constant 11” starts off (Vera’s work posted below for reference)
And w/ Vera's work you are thinking about motion (trapeze), but her work is static
And in her work there is a distance between each of the blocks, whereas you intentionally have the blocks touching?
![]()
Jonathan Chomko I was so happy to see you post this work of Vera's, I hadn't seen it before! I can also see figures in her work, relationships.
Having the blocks touch was a key part of my concept from the beginning. I was thinking about relationship dynamics, and how two figures touching or leaning on each other can represent those dynamics.
When the piece is first minted, there are two blocks, representing the wallet address of the previous and current minter. The original idea was that there would only be two figures, and each time the piece changed hands the composition would shift.
With only two figures I was worried that the transfer might not be visible, so I made the transfer additive, each new transfer adding a block to the composition. The piece is responsive, so in theory the work can be scaled to allow each block to be full size, but in the window of an NFT marketplace the work becomes squished, horizontally compressed.
I didn’t actually think anyone would transfer it more than a few times, but I was really excited to see what people did. You organized a transfer of “Constant 0” to a whole group of different artists and collectors, which created a lovely organic pattern. And 0xfff made some interesting transfers as well, sending it to themselves to create repeating patterns.
With “Constant 11” it’s been really fun to see the different modes express themselves in the pattern.
CSA2D7 Yea! I mean John Gerrard did a talk in here recently, asking how do we (the crypto, nft, token folk) link back to the Algorists, and this aesthetic relationship to Vera’s work popped in my head. CSA note: John’s talk with Cody Edison on December 20, 2024 in the CSA Discord, “The Last Slides,” completed John’s original lecture at the Digital Art Symposium, LACMA’s Art and Tech Summit in Miami that took place a few weeks before on December 3, 2024.
For all the motion Vera's piece intends to convey, it is completely still and unchanging - of course there were limits to what she was able to do in her time
But that's kind of where I get excited about “Direct” and "Constant"
The idea of building this piece that is visually simple but almost incomprehensible. Is that really 118 transfers? How are we going to understand it visually if it gets exponentially bigger?
Just like seeing the Himalayas up close, we see it but can we really comprehend how dense it is with just our eyes?
So, in this sense, “Constant 11” is for thinking about the blockchain, about things we can't really comprehend, and there's just a simpleness to the project, aesthetically, and conceptually that tie it together
Jonathan Chomko That's really nice to read! I think one of the things that keeps on drawing me back to blockchain work is that there is interaction that is possible with other people. You put up a proposition, and people meet you on the other side and carry the work on.
CSA2D7 Absolutely. This is not right-click-save art, right? I mean, I made a comment to you a little while back that I wanted this work to be the largest sculpture on the blockchain. You kind of laughed it off, because honestly, who knows what that means? But it's the direction we are trying to seek, right? Aim for Richard Serra and Richard Smithson, large; abstract; sculpture; in a way that is only possible on the blockchain through this participatory performance. “Work comes out of work.”
Can you talk a little bit about your experience with blockchain work (including past projects) because I feel like you are right in it. And we should definitely have 0xfff comment on that in the future, because they too are right in it and created the automated portion of “Direct” (w/ their contract “CSA Mover”) specifically for “Constant 11.” They were also part of the original group of artists in “Constant 0.”
Jonathan Chomko Yes, very grateful for 0xfff's contributions, they were also a big supporter of the project initially
CSA2D7 Yes, and 0xfff started the self-transfer (which you previously mentioned) which we homaged in one of the early phases as well
Jonathan Chomko Yeah 0xfff did a lot of fun experiments! I've been doing blockchain stuff since about 2021. I think I've always been curious about where the value is in art on the blockchain.
My first big project was Proof of Work, which I feel was asking the question 'is a work valuable because a lot of effort has been put in it?'
I feel like "Constant" is saying that value lies in relationships; that it's in the space between buyer and seller that value exists.
CSA2D7 On the "Constant" webpage, there's actually a little generator to test out what "Constant" would look like after X transfers. For me it always stopped working after like 27 transfers or something... but that's clearly not an issue right now for “Constant 11” right? We're at 118 or so, and it is currently in John Gerrard’s possession. Part of testing for me was that little generator, and “0.”
Jonathan Chomko On the "Constant" page the simulator uses a pre-set array of wallet addresses, so it might stop working when that array is exhausted. But "Constant" is rendered on-chain differently from say “Draw by Computer” - I've calculated that it should be able to render up to about 7,000 transfers
CSA2D7 7,000 transfers is a lot. If we reach 7,000... I think we should call up Sotheby's or Christie's
Jonathan Chomko Haha yeah 7,000 is very many
CSA2D7 You wrote: "You put up a proposition, and people meet you on the other side and carry the work on." and I think that participatory aspect is really significant to "Constant"
What we're doing with “Direct,” is kind of a natural extension of "Constant", right - but I think where we might differ is how we see that relationship?
I think I read somewhere that you saw it was both kind of a superficial thing - its just the wallet, but I think I see of it as something more - ownership
Jonathan Chomko I think what I meant was that the wallet address doesn't represent a whole person
CSA2D7 Yes! Absolutely. It doesn't
And I agree, but I think there's a transactional depth to letting someone hold "you" (or your artwork, a piece of you) in their wallet and determine the disposition of that thing
Jonathan Chomko Yeah there definitely is! Esp as the work gets denser and denser
CSA2D7 Like when we think about control - you mentioned at coffee that technically, the piece is not generated through the EVM but your server (you can explain this better than me)
So there is still an aspect of control that you theoretically have over the piece as it moves -yes? And this is the nature of some NFTs where the original author still retains some control over how the work appears (esp. if it's a pointer with IPFS)?
Even if its not in the original author's wallet
Jonathan Chomko I don't actually have any control over the work via the contract, whoever's wallet it's in has full authority to send it or keep it
CSA2D7 Agreed - but you have the ability to shut off your server and control how the work appears?
Jonathan Chomko Yeah to some degree - the way "Constant" is rendered is that an html file with an embedded javascript script is generated on the contract.
The image link in the NFT's json points towards my server, which runs the javascript on the generated html page, and returns the SVG to the marketplace.
So there is an intermediary render step, but this render step could also be done by a standalone / arweave hosted page that would provide an unmediated view of what is on the contract, fully out of my control.
CSA2D7 I see, so you're saying if your server goes down, if we also have a standalone / arweave image, that arweave image would not be affected
Jonathan Chomko yeah exactly
and that this idea of transaction depth or trust is still there - there is no recourse if someone doesn't transfer it properly, or just keeps it
CSA2D7 This is still a form of influence / control though
Agreed. I was just trying to get to the contours of the influence / control that each participant has over the piece
I think there's a technical influence that you as the original creator have
And there's also probably a stronger reputational influence that the project has
i.e., who wants to be the person that steals “Constant 11” - although it's possible. I don't know all of the participants. And that’s part of what makes the art object and concept seductive - we are aiming for the largest, the densest, but at any moment the flipside could occur - it could be lost, it could get stolen, it could get halted. And what does it mean to “lose” something, if we can still track it and see it. Is it lost if it's forever viewable as public art?
That question of loss aside, and the two aforementioned influences aside, there is this really deep trust and control that each participant has over the work when they are in possession of it. There is this list that the participants can choose from (generated through my account on X), but they don’t necessarily have to. I was speaking with John Gerrard about this, and he was cycling between a couple of interesting choices. You don’t have to go with the list, if you feel certain about a choice.
And that's part of what makes it an interesting work. Right, if we just went with phase 2, the “CSA Mover” contract that 0xfff created for all of the transfers we wouldn't have this test of what it means to possess a thing, or what it means to lose a thing
If we had relied solely on “CSA Mover,” all of the participants who wanted to take part could just join 0xfff's contract and let me automate the movement without their being a test of ownership
Jonathan Chomko I see yeah! But I think it was important for you to have people hold it and make the choice
new
CSA2D7 I think that's part of the performance that I want to stress in this manual phase, that each participant is choosing the next one, it's a form of, a kind of, social trust that's pretty strong right?
It's like a form of decentralized KYC to an extent
Are you going to pass to someone you don't know, or someone that you do know, and how do you know them, etc.
Each transfer has a little story (or maybe a large story) behind it, like starting off this manual transfer phase with Nina Roehrs, who I have distance from, but also recognize as an important figure in this token-as-art movement
Jonathan Chomko Yeah - we can see paths of trust in how it's transferred
CSA2D7 It's such a simple project but there are so many things you can kind of see. It's kind of an ethnography of this current scene we are in
A lot of which is mediated through X and Discord... btw I saw on X that you have a new project called “Aesthetic Constant?”
Jonathan Chomko Something that I realized in our IRL conversation is how much the blockchain record is part of the piece. Like someone could generate an aesthetically similar piece, but the eventual value of this piece is in its history, which cannot be faked
Yeah “Aesthetic Constant!”
CSA2D7 Its funny because one of the criticisms I've seen or maybe felt on the project is that things in the past have existed that are similar to this participation (Alighiero Boetti, “Viaggi postali (Postal Voyages),” On Kawara, “I got up,” etc. etc.) from the 1960’s
In the Rhizome discord, I saw someone mention that they had an instagram project which posted all of the DMs they received on their public page before they got deleted by Instagram
But I see “Direct” as very distinct from these projects; despite centralized social media (X, and Discord) playing a function and being a part of it; “Direct” is still very much about decentralized participation
Jonathan Chomko I think it's valid to compare it to other types of communication art, but I think it's a gesture that is worth making again on the blockchain, partly because the art can be dynamic, and because of the implications of value and trust.
CSA2D7 Absolutely. It's decentralized, and on the blockchain. This will be an art object at the end of the day that I think has no precedent.
Jonathan Chomko I'm really grateful for the work you're putting in to realize this vision!
CSA2D7It’s the three of us, and all the participants
Jonathan Chomko
True! a collective work
CSA2D7 Constant aside - I was asking you about “Aesthetic Constant?”
Jonathan Chomko Yeah! My vision with the “Aesthetic Constant” is to release a series of the walking animations I've been posting.
CSA2D7 Yes! I love the walking animations that you previously released with Mack - please tell us about that too and how it informs (if it does) “Aesthetic Constant”
Jonathan Chomk The previous animations were recorded from my Shadowing installation. Working on that release I was reminded of how easy it is for us to understand human motion, even with very small amounts of data. It’s one of the patterns are brains are wired to recognize.
“Aesthetic Constant” also builds on “Draw by Computer,” in that they will be on-chain generated animated SVGs.
CSA2D7 Yes! I thought there was this aesthetic link there (and conceptual)
Jonathan Chomko Yeah! I'm also thinking of release dynamics that build on what we're doing here with "Constant"
I think it'll be only allowlist for primary mint, and then each holder gets to invite one person to mint 'beside' them.
CSA2D7 I see “Shadowing,” “Draw by Computer,” and “Constant” in it
Jonathan Chomko Yeah it has all those parts! The final idea is that each participant can also choose to end their cycle instead of inviting someone to mint, so the holders have some control of the supply
CSA2D7 I kind of like having this format, it's a little weird but also forces us to respond organically to each other (vs email or something)
We also have no idea if someone is here or not, if someone will interrupt us or not, but also we're maybe performing or not lol who knows
I felt a little uptight to start, and now feel a little looser
Jonathan Chomko yeah I think it's good, also allows ppl to drop in and out, but also easily scan the convo
CSA2D7 Schrödinger's audience
CSA2D7
0xfff
Constant 11
https://constant.jonathanchomko.com/
This transcript is a partially edited conversation between Jonathan Chomko and CSA2D7 regarding Constant 11 (an Ethereum art object), Direct (a performance modifying Constant 11), and CSA Mover (a smart contract on Ethereum written by 0xfff used to automate part of the performance). An unedited second conversation took place in the CSA2D7 Discord between Jonathan and CSA with the intent to simulate a conversation on a bench in McCarren Park similar to a first conversation that took place in-person between Jonathan and CSA a few weeks before, nearby McCarren Park. This medium was partly influenced by Nina Sobell and Emily Hartzell’s “ParkBench, VirtuAlice: Alice Sat Here.”
CSA2D7 Heya Jonathan. Just chilling here ready for you whenever you are
Jonathan Chomko Hey CSA good afternoon!
As I've been thinking about this chat, I wondered how you got into "Constant?”
CSA2D7 Well, the first time I heard about you was through JPG, which was... how to describe it, a decentralized gathering place where Canonites tried to define the next artistic canons for NFTs through social consensus (i.e., arguing, agreeing, voting); founded by MP (María Paula Fernández), Trent (Trent Elmore), and Nic (Nic Hamilton) amongst others. Misha, xsten, WMP, Simon Denny, Chainleft, Tokenfox are all JPG alumni.
So I kind of followed your work from a distance. It was your work “Natural Static” w/ Brian Droitcour and JPG where you kind of popped up again on my radar
And then when you announced "Constant" on X, I got really interested. It kind of hit on some interesting things that were happening in the scene at the time - esp. the onchain aspect
Now that you've had some time to kind of gain some distance from the release of the project, how do you think about it (now vs. then)?
Jonathan Chomko Nice I love JPG, they are a good crew of people!
When I was working on "Constant" there were a few themes I was focusing on; the idea of representing relationships between people on the blockchain, and the idea of making a work that is not static; that changes each time it's transferred.
Usually when I get close to releasing a project I start thinking a lot about elements that are perhaps not central to my interest in the project - I think about how the market will respond, whether it has enough generative variation, etc.
I'm also realizing the more I release projects, the easier it is to try to put too many ideas into one project, and it's better to keep things simple if possible. Let each project ring like a bell, if it can
But looking back now, I'm happy with the decisions I made, and that the ideas resonated with certain people, yourself included!
CSA2D7 It certainly resonated with me. At our last meeting you talked about its aesthetics and how you didn't think it was necessarily an aesthetically-pleasing piece. Can you talk a little bit about how you thought about the project? You mentioned some of Harm Van Den Dorpel's work as a potential route you didn't take
Jonathan Chomko Yeah, I'm happy it did!
In the post, I wrote that I didn't take the Harm-esque approach because it was too visually dense. I was also interested in pure composition. It's very easy in generative art to have lots of elements, and they signal complexity and value, and I felt like I had done that gesture in Natural Static
What I meant about aesthetics is that this work doesn't primarily make an appeal to value through its aesthetics. I feel like a lot of generative art says 'look at what I can do with code, look at the complexity I can achieve with code'. And "Constant" doesn't do that - the aesthetics are there as one part of a larger gesture.
The aesthetics are kinda there to only illustrate the blockchain dynamics, and to point to a sort of relationality that blockchain enables.
I'd be curious to know more about when you decided to embark on the building up of “Constant 11”.
CSA2D7 Yes! The aesthetics illustrate blockchain dynamics, and that relationality is how I always saw the pieces, as building blocks, and that’s why using “Constant 11,” with each 1 representing the two starting blocks was kind of a sign for me.
This was something I was starting to think about when “Constant 0” started to get passed around amongst artists, including Rhea Myers, who was a significant influence on “Constant.” The figure of “0” also matches the circle we made (starting with the original transfer, Jonathan to CSA, and ending with Jonathan to CSA).
With respect to “11,” I had to wait for the collection size to reach that magic number before I could acquire it.
Blockchain dynamics aside, there is an aesthetic similarity to Vera Molnár's work “100 trapèzes” when “Constant 11” starts off (Vera’s work posted below for reference)
And w/ Vera's work you are thinking about motion (trapeze), but her work is static
And in her work there is a distance between each of the blocks, whereas you intentionally have the blocks touching?
Jonathan Chomko I was so happy to see you post this work of Vera's, I hadn't seen it before! I can also see figures in her work, relationships.
Having the blocks touch was a key part of my concept from the beginning. I was thinking about relationship dynamics, and how two figures touching or leaning on each other can represent those dynamics.
When the piece is first minted, there are two blocks, representing the wallet address of the previous and current minter. The original idea was that there would only be two figures, and each time the piece changed hands the composition would shift.
With only two figures I was worried that the transfer might not be visible, so I made the transfer additive, each new transfer adding a block to the composition. The piece is responsive, so in theory the work can be scaled to allow each block to be full size, but in the window of an NFT marketplace the work becomes squished, horizontally compressed.
I didn’t actually think anyone would transfer it more than a few times, but I was really excited to see what people did. You organized a transfer of “Constant 0” to a whole group of different artists and collectors, which created a lovely organic pattern. And 0xfff made some interesting transfers as well, sending it to themselves to create repeating patterns.
With “Constant 11” it’s been really fun to see the different modes express themselves in the pattern.
CSA2D7 Yea! I mean John Gerrard did a talk in here recently, asking how do we (the crypto, nft, token folk) link back to the Algorists, and this aesthetic relationship to Vera’s work popped in my head. CSA note: John’s talk with Cody Edison on December 20, 2024 in the CSA Discord, “The Last Slides,” completed John’s original lecture at the Digital Art Symposium, LACMA’s Art and Tech Summit in Miami that took place a few weeks before on December 3, 2024.
For all the motion Vera's piece intends to convey, it is completely still and unchanging - of course there were limits to what she was able to do in her time
But that's kind of where I get excited about “Direct” and "Constant"
The idea of building this piece that is visually simple but almost incomprehensible. Is that really 118 transfers? How are we going to understand it visually if it gets exponentially bigger?
Just like seeing the Himalayas up close, we see it but can we really comprehend how dense it is with just our eyes?
So, in this sense, “Constant 11” is for thinking about the blockchain, about things we can't really comprehend, and there's just a simpleness to the project, aesthetically, and conceptually that tie it together
Jonathan Chomko That's really nice to read! I think one of the things that keeps on drawing me back to blockchain work is that there is interaction that is possible with other people. You put up a proposition, and people meet you on the other side and carry the work on.
CSA2D7 Absolutely. This is not right-click-save art, right? I mean, I made a comment to you a little while back that I wanted this work to be the largest sculpture on the blockchain. You kind of laughed it off, because honestly, who knows what that means? But it's the direction we are trying to seek, right? Aim for Richard Serra and Richard Smithson, large; abstract; sculpture; in a way that is only possible on the blockchain through this participatory performance. “Work comes out of work.”
Can you talk a little bit about your experience with blockchain work (including past projects) because I feel like you are right in it. And we should definitely have 0xfff comment on that in the future, because they too are right in it and created the automated portion of “Direct” (w/ their contract “CSA Mover”) specifically for “Constant 11.” They were also part of the original group of artists in “Constant 0.”
Jonathan Chomko Yes, very grateful for 0xfff's contributions, they were also a big supporter of the project initially
CSA2D7 Yes, and 0xfff started the self-transfer (which you previously mentioned) which we homaged in one of the early phases as well
Jonathan Chomko Yeah 0xfff did a lot of fun experiments! I've been doing blockchain stuff since about 2021. I think I've always been curious about where the value is in art on the blockchain.
My first big project was Proof of Work, which I feel was asking the question 'is a work valuable because a lot of effort has been put in it?'
I feel like "Constant" is saying that value lies in relationships; that it's in the space between buyer and seller that value exists.
CSA2D7 On the "Constant" webpage, there's actually a little generator to test out what "Constant" would look like after X transfers. For me it always stopped working after like 27 transfers or something... but that's clearly not an issue right now for “Constant 11” right? We're at 118 or so, and it is currently in John Gerrard’s possession. Part of testing for me was that little generator, and “0.”
Jonathan Chomko On the "Constant" page the simulator uses a pre-set array of wallet addresses, so it might stop working when that array is exhausted. But "Constant" is rendered on-chain differently from say “Draw by Computer” - I've calculated that it should be able to render up to about 7,000 transfers
CSA2D7 7,000 transfers is a lot. If we reach 7,000... I think we should call up Sotheby's or Christie's
Jonathan Chomko Haha yeah 7,000 is very many
CSA2D7 You wrote: "You put up a proposition, and people meet you on the other side and carry the work on." and I think that participatory aspect is really significant to "Constant"
What we're doing with “Direct,” is kind of a natural extension of "Constant", right - but I think where we might differ is how we see that relationship?
I think I read somewhere that you saw it was both kind of a superficial thing - its just the wallet, but I think I see of it as something more - ownership
Jonathan Chomko I think what I meant was that the wallet address doesn't represent a whole person
CSA2D7 Yes! Absolutely. It doesn't
And I agree, but I think there's a transactional depth to letting someone hold "you" (or your artwork, a piece of you) in their wallet and determine the disposition of that thing
Jonathan Chomko Yeah there definitely is! Esp as the work gets denser and denser
CSA2D7 Like when we think about control - you mentioned at coffee that technically, the piece is not generated through the EVM but your server (you can explain this better than me)
So there is still an aspect of control that you theoretically have over the piece as it moves -yes? And this is the nature of some NFTs where the original author still retains some control over how the work appears (esp. if it's a pointer with IPFS)?
Even if its not in the original author's wallet
Jonathan Chomko I don't actually have any control over the work via the contract, whoever's wallet it's in has full authority to send it or keep it
CSA2D7 Agreed - but you have the ability to shut off your server and control how the work appears?
Jonathan Chomko Yeah to some degree - the way "Constant" is rendered is that an html file with an embedded javascript script is generated on the contract.
The image link in the NFT's json points towards my server, which runs the javascript on the generated html page, and returns the SVG to the marketplace.
So there is an intermediary render step, but this render step could also be done by a standalone / arweave hosted page that would provide an unmediated view of what is on the contract, fully out of my control.
CSA2D7 I see, so you're saying if your server goes down, if we also have a standalone / arweave image, that arweave image would not be affected
Jonathan Chomko yeah exactly
and that this idea of transaction depth or trust is still there - there is no recourse if someone doesn't transfer it properly, or just keeps it
CSA2D7 This is still a form of influence / control though
Agreed. I was just trying to get to the contours of the influence / control that each participant has over the piece
I think there's a technical influence that you as the original creator have
And there's also probably a stronger reputational influence that the project has
i.e., who wants to be the person that steals “Constant 11” - although it's possible. I don't know all of the participants. And that’s part of what makes the art object and concept seductive - we are aiming for the largest, the densest, but at any moment the flipside could occur - it could be lost, it could get stolen, it could get halted. And what does it mean to “lose” something, if we can still track it and see it. Is it lost if it's forever viewable as public art?
That question of loss aside, and the two aforementioned influences aside, there is this really deep trust and control that each participant has over the work when they are in possession of it. There is this list that the participants can choose from (generated through my account on X), but they don’t necessarily have to. I was speaking with John Gerrard about this, and he was cycling between a couple of interesting choices. You don’t have to go with the list, if you feel certain about a choice.
And that's part of what makes it an interesting work. Right, if we just went with phase 2, the “CSA Mover” contract that 0xfff created for all of the transfers we wouldn't have this test of what it means to possess a thing, or what it means to lose a thing
If we had relied solely on “CSA Mover,” all of the participants who wanted to take part could just join 0xfff's contract and let me automate the movement without their being a test of ownership
Jonathan Chomko I see yeah! But I think it was important for you to have people hold it and make the choice
new
CSA2D7 I think that's part of the performance that I want to stress in this manual phase, that each participant is choosing the next one, it's a form of, a kind of, social trust that's pretty strong right?
It's like a form of decentralized KYC to an extent
Are you going to pass to someone you don't know, or someone that you do know, and how do you know them, etc.
Each transfer has a little story (or maybe a large story) behind it, like starting off this manual transfer phase with Nina Roehrs, who I have distance from, but also recognize as an important figure in this token-as-art movement
Jonathan Chomko Yeah - we can see paths of trust in how it's transferred
CSA2D7 It's such a simple project but there are so many things you can kind of see. It's kind of an ethnography of this current scene we are in
A lot of which is mediated through X and Discord... btw I saw on X that you have a new project called “Aesthetic Constant?”
Jonathan Chomko Something that I realized in our IRL conversation is how much the blockchain record is part of the piece. Like someone could generate an aesthetically similar piece, but the eventual value of this piece is in its history, which cannot be faked
Yeah “Aesthetic Constant!”
CSA2D7 Its funny because one of the criticisms I've seen or maybe felt on the project is that things in the past have existed that are similar to this participation (Alighiero Boetti, “Viaggi postali (Postal Voyages),” On Kawara, “I got up,” etc. etc.) from the 1960’s
In the Rhizome discord, I saw someone mention that they had an instagram project which posted all of the DMs they received on their public page before they got deleted by Instagram
But I see “Direct” as very distinct from these projects; despite centralized social media (X, and Discord) playing a function and being a part of it; “Direct” is still very much about decentralized participation
Jonathan Chomko I think it's valid to compare it to other types of communication art, but I think it's a gesture that is worth making again on the blockchain, partly because the art can be dynamic, and because of the implications of value and trust.
CSA2D7 Absolutely. It's decentralized, and on the blockchain. This will be an art object at the end of the day that I think has no precedent.
Jonathan Chomko I'm really grateful for the work you're putting in to realize this vision!
CSA2D7It’s the three of us, and all the participants
Jonathan Chomko
True! a collective work
CSA2D7 Constant aside - I was asking you about “Aesthetic Constant?”
Jonathan Chomko Yeah! My vision with the “Aesthetic Constant” is to release a series of the walking animations I've been posting.
CSA2D7 Yes! I love the walking animations that you previously released with Mack - please tell us about that too and how it informs (if it does) “Aesthetic Constant”
Jonathan Chomk The previous animations were recorded from my Shadowing installation. Working on that release I was reminded of how easy it is for us to understand human motion, even with very small amounts of data. It’s one of the patterns are brains are wired to recognize.
“Aesthetic Constant” also builds on “Draw by Computer,” in that they will be on-chain generated animated SVGs.
CSA2D7 Yes! I thought there was this aesthetic link there (and conceptual)
Jonathan Chomko Yeah! I'm also thinking of release dynamics that build on what we're doing here with "Constant"
I think it'll be only allowlist for primary mint, and then each holder gets to invite one person to mint 'beside' them.
CSA2D7 I see “Shadowing,” “Draw by Computer,” and “Constant” in it
Jonathan Chomko Yeah it has all those parts! The final idea is that each participant can also choose to end their cycle instead of inviting someone to mint, so the holders have some control of the supply
CSA2D7 I kind of like having this format, it's a little weird but also forces us to respond organically to each other (vs email or something)
We also have no idea if someone is here or not, if someone will interrupt us or not, but also we're maybe performing or not lol who knows
I felt a little uptight to start, and now feel a little looser
Jonathan Chomko yeah I think it's good, also allows ppl to drop in and out, but also easily scan the convo
CSA2D7 Schrödinger's audience
CSA2D7
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Constant 11
https://constant.jonathanchomko.com/